He fathered Simeon ben Gamliel, who was named for Gamaliel's father, and a daughter, who married a priest named Simon ben Nathanael. He says he is "of the tribe of Benjamin.". Begins with a consonant. You need to read more than later recollections of what Hillell and Shammai said (ie.,, Mishnah and Talmud, both much later than the New Testament and there is a great discussion in scholarship over how much of that material reflects the real world of the first century). I got my Masters Degree at Dallas Theological Seminary. Good to see the parrot-heads well represented here. it seems like Gamaliels statement would be a good point to make in sharing the gospel message with people of the Jewish faith. You can read Peters advice for yourself- then open your Bible to Matthew, John, Revelation, and Mark, and listen to Jesus for yourself! Paul enunciated precisely the same principle in Romans 7:2 (Polhill 30). Third, as John Polhill observes, several rulings from Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, the Jewish commentary on the Law. There is also a fair bit of controversy about Paul. Therefore, in times when there is no clarity, we should end there and not come up with our own assumptions. There are some good reasons to investigate Pauls claim to have been educated by Gamaliel. Third, as John Polhill observes, several rulings from Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, the Jewish commentary on the Law. Reliability is certainly an issue. Go and sin no more said Jesus, Dont relive that history. That is an issue and is creating confusion regarding the Brit Chadashah (Renewed Testament). Mantra: ..and Muhammad is his prophet., .3) Paul the Pharisee, the self-appointed Apostle to the Gentiles, whose 13 letters comprise one third of what, today, we call the New Testament. (The first, original New Testament was composed by the second century heretic Marcion, and he coined the term New Testament. His new book contained nothing except 10 of Pauls letters and an abbreviated Gospel of Luke. Maase Hatorah -works of the law 2. He ignored your instructions that I passed on to him. It seems that people want to limit the intervention of God in the lives of people he intends to use. Islam is the truth, Allah Akbar/God is Greatest. Undoubtedly, most of the Jews knew who Gamaliel was, and thus they allowed Paul to speak. Now Ive got 3 slots open. What is this blog? I pray that you will be blessed with the knowledge of Jesus Christ and Gods love through the cross for you. I. There were no other New Testament books, and the Hebrew Scriptures were the Old Testament which was irrelevant, according to the heretic Marcion.) Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. But he also gave the Holy Spirit something to work with! I appreciate your many responses to this thread.as I wrote this response you have added a few more! R. N. The game the dogs play is the same today, Except now they do it on blogs. I have regularly recommended you start your own blog and have these sorts of discussions there. In this case, that assumption would clearly be wrong. With respect to Hellenism, Hillel was more open to Hellenism than Shammai and was therefore more open to cooperation with the Romans. 1973 Inside the mind of a Jesus Person. I think we take Pauls claim here WAY too seriously. But Ive branched out into quite a few other books of the New Testament, and some Old Testament as well as frequent book reviews. No need to answer. There were a plethora of Pharisee within the Sanhedrin that agreed with Yeshua and Yeshua himself is a Pharisee(plethora of verses that state this as well). If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. The teachings he received included "the perfect manner of the law of the fathers" (Acts 22:3). Happy Pentecost 2017 All praise be to Jesus. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than THESE. [Mark 12:28-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18], #2 an expert in the law, tested him [Jesus] with this question: Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?, Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. ). xl. These mostly have something to do with marriage and divorce. And Paul only said it here, one time, in the middle of a personal letter. Which owner would be upset if we finished early? Not to mention I highly doubt you have a Phd in any area of academia or even known any grasp of Hebrew or Greek. In 2019 he published a commentary. The second passage refers to Paul. To what extent should we use Pauls training at the feet of Gamaliel as background to understanding his later theology? If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. Im horrified that youre taking Jewish writings and making crazy stories out of them. Paul, (Timothy1:1) Jesus said, "Ye must be born again" to? We proclaim with a big smile And Jesus is my co-pilot So Im always top of the pile, God our Father loves his children He is patient as we grow So we take another step Its The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show, As we journey with The Moose Faithfully by our side We get a revelation We have to swallow our pride, He must become greater He really is The Star I must become less, but still with Him Ill travel far, You must follow me, says Jesus In His eyes I see a twinkle He is not My friend I am HIS Jesus is The Star like Bullwinkle. But there is a notable difference in Paul from pre- to post-conversion. Pharisee ruled that executions created a bloody Sanhedrin and if you had more than one a year, it was considered a bloody Sanhedrin. I do not think that after conversion he started reading manuals of style in order to communicate better with Gentiles, he already was well aware of these styles because the were pervasive in the culture. Just because Paul disagreed with Gamaliel on one tiny aspect hes therefore a from the school Shammi? If he came to cancel the law why is he adhering and implementing Torah and following the laws passed by the Sanhedrin? Study sets, textbooks, questions. I justify everything I do If I testify about myself it MUST be true Im the only man in all history whose testimony doesnt need two or three. He also intimately knew Gamaliel was was there, at least at The time of Pentecost. He was raised in a Jewish society and home because everyone in the entire New Testament are Jews (or converts) who followed Torah. The issue is that the massive influx of gentiles into the sect are causing problems by bringing in gentile customs, natural born Jews adhearing to traditions that contradict Torah. How dare he question the words of our Great Apostle Paul ? At the Last Supper, Jesus said to His Apostles: You are those who have stood by me in my trials. I am not at all sure you have read my article accurately, nor really spent much time on this site reading the things I post here. How many years did Paul come after Jesus? This is a matter of defining ones terms. I agree, It does make sense a Pharisee would be expected to be married, though. Paul said: I became your father. I did not see this question before, sorry. As Gamaliels Christianity is attested in the Clementine Literature, one may, with care, posit an early date for the tradition. Perhaps on the basis of a preserved tradition that he oversaw the body of St. Stephen. Why do you want Paul to act like a Pope in Corinth, someone who oversees all aspects of the church? Jesus spoke the words recorded in Matthew 28:18-20, including make disciples of all nations. Jesus never used the term Great Commission, its simply a tradition of men. Therefore, he must have planted these groups himself. In humbelness if heart, I have made this contribution. First, Gamaliel was one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. (seriously, when have a much of Jews or Christians agreed on anything? When did Paul study under Gamaliel? Galatians: Freedom through Gods Grace (Wipf & Stock, 2019). Since Paul clearly gives his yeshiva and his lineage, it shows he wasnt a Christian before and after Damascus. Wrong. For this he is slandered with pride by Christians who if believed in the Bible would reject mainstream theology for the lie it is. What you consider mainsteam Judaism is nothing like the previous sects of Judaism and infact evolved after the temple was destroyed. Answer Gamaliel was a first-century Jewish rabbi and a leader in the Jewish Sanhedrin. In other words, had God been preparing Saul for this breakthrough prior to Acts chapter 9? Your name never appears in the Bible after your appointment as the 12th Apostle in Acts 1. Mark could be understood as the first core teachings of Peter and the other Apostles. Wow, that Love Song concert was groovy, man. In my reading, it would seem that many doubt the claim that one as zealous as Paul could not have sat at the feet of Gamaliel. You who were formerly known as gentiles. The Apostle Paul met him during his second missionary journey and he became Paul's companion and missionary partner along with Silas. But I am a Reformed Anglican. 5:7) Paul takes a Nazarite vow, validate his claim that he doesnt teach against Torah and upholds it. Jesus came to fulfill Law and Prophets and He will. The people who Paul persecuted were diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that he was raised from the dead. For example, Polhill says, The most interesting ruling preserved from Rabban Gamaliel was his insistence that a woman had the right to remarry upon the testimony of a single witness that her husband had died. This article is the result of when you remove the culture/context of the scriptures, the Hebraics of the Brist Chadasha (Renewed Testament) and injecting the christian outlook that Shaul (Paul) divorced his Jewish roots. Gods commandments are found in the Law of Moses and the Prophets, which Jesus came to FULFILL, (not to abolish, as the false apostle Paul the Pharisee taught.) Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) Who wrote 1 and 2 Timothy? But is it correct to characterize Paul as an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view, namely, that Jesus was the Messiah and the High Priest killed him. .1) Gospel of Mark time lag between being appointed and being sent Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. He was the son of Simeon ben Hillel and grandson of the great Jewish teacher Hillel the Elder. We can know Gods will. Gamaliel is not a Christian, but he certainly demonstrates that attitude in this story! This piece (above) is well done. Let every matter be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses, as it says in the Law ! Both clearly exhibit traits of each respective tradition.As to Pauls Hellenistic tendencies and use of his Roman citizenship, we only see him make use of those things POST conversion. Last Update: October 15, 2022. Dang, I wrote that and didnt respond to your last point. We know that as a young man Paul studied under the tutelage of Rabbi Gamaliel in Tarsus, who provided him with an expert knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures ( Acts 22:3 ). This contradicts the clear specific teaching of Jesus about the first and greatest commandment and the second. So youd rather channel Constantine, anti semetic church fathers and bad book from amazon from authors who know absolutely nothing about Judaism or what they are even reading. I think Sam is right (somewhere up the thread), one can differ from his teacher, sometimes radically. But this seems to be where the peaceful teachings of Gamaliel shine stronger. It is best to study what the schools of Judaism taught during that era of that temple. As a side note, Wright has an excellent article on that on http://www.ntwrightpage.com here: http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Paul_Arabia_Elijah.pdf. It isnt a question of mens opinions about what Paul really meant or what Paul must have known or what Paul was actually referring to here or what Paul was clearly implying or what we must conclude that Paul was assuming, etc. God wants to welcome anyone into His family who has the desire to seek, follow, obey, trust, and love God. Hillel disagreed on this aspect, due to many converts in the Torah ( Ruth, Obidiah, Abraham etc.) What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? You will be called Rocky. The blog started as a supplement to teaching through Acts at my church, then later college classes. Lets not waste our time with endless debates about what Paul really meant with his wacky teachings about baptizing the dead or there is neither male nor female. Paul was wrong. There is more to Sauls violence than preaching Jesus as Messiah. Its no stretch to say Gamaliel was a Hillelite and Saul was a Shammaite. I say that Paul became more like a Hillelite and was largely impacted by Gamaliels theology because there are a few instances noted in the Bible where Pauls beliefs line up very closely with Gamaliels. Surely it makes no sense at all that our loving Creator could or would give us a message we cannot understand. Share of voice equals share of mind. If probably, then how would we know whether Paul ever pulled a rare Justice Rehnquist move, where Rehnquist sides with liberal Justices and dissents against conservatives in weird and inexplicable single cases or two? The Olympic games were created to honor the gods and Emperors were considered gods. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. There is no such thing as a Jewish-Christian or a Christian. When Paul began the training that ultimately led him down the road of encounter with the risen Christ on the way to Damascus, we actually have no details. The reason why Paul is talking about athletics is due to Imperial Court. I have come to save the day! Pauls speech and thought directly lines up with the teachings of Hillel. You dont know him, and Ive just barely met him. As to pauls seemingly at odds relationship with his teacher Gamaliel, it is no odd thing for a student to differ from a teacher, especially if the student is quite a zealous one. Just as Muslims believe that Muhammad never intentionally disobeyed God, Roman Catholics believe Mary was sinless and Evangelical Christians think its heresy to state flatly Paul was WRONG., The Apostle Matthew recorded that at Jesus baptism, A voice from heaven said, This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. [Matthew 3:17], In Gospel of Mark (Mark recorded the teaching of the Apostle Peter), we read: a voice came from the cloud: This is my Son, whom I love. For that matter, was he even n the observing crowd at the time of the 1st Pentecost speech by Peter? Jesus as the Messiah was not so much a liberal view, as one of supposed profane or contemptuous speech, i.e. According to Jesus, which Commandment is the Most Important? Pharisee Saul, inventor of Christianity, the new Pharisees. We do not know if either Gamaliel or Paul heard Jesus preach or were part of any of the meetings which led to his death. FWIW, the name is spelled Ron Moseley. The Lord Jesus clinches this point: if ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free (John 8:31-32). The concept of a rabbi was extremely new in Paul's time, and he probably didn't study under one. We need to get to work applying that paint to the garage and house as quick as we can. The overwhelming majority of the epistles is actually fighting against the teachings of Shammai in his time period. I didnt think King Herod would knock you off so quickly. Paul, Silas, and Timothy desired to enter Asia to spread the gospel there, but the Holy Spirit prevented them. There are some points I agree and disagree with. Acts recounts the times he faced persecution (13:45; 14:19) and risked his . GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus THE crowd stood in hushed silence. A generation before Christ there were two great rabbis, Hillel and Shammai. The rule is- never step on the Hat, just keep dancing around it. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. Do you have a reference handy mentioning Gamaliel in the Clementine lit? !hum !! This is more accurate, important, and authoritative than personal letters written by Paul the Pharisee, who never knew Jesus personally, had no part in His ministry, and had no eyewitness testimony. Once we allow things that we can not say with certainty, we give a foothold to the enemy to sow his seed too. Or see the series of posts on Core Beliefs of Second Temple Judaism starting here: https://readingacts.com/2017/03/30/core-beliefs-of-second-temple-judaism-shema/. mercer county, pa public records; facts about the roman . In his letters to the Corinthians he says, To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. How about written in stone in heaven (in other words, for eternity.) I meant to say for rejecting Mohammed (p) and worshipping a man who said worship God alone, Jesus (p), and adding a third God to the 1 and His son making a pagan Trinity, Christianity is anathema to its worshipped human founder (in name only and in Greek at that) who said OUR God is ONE worship HIM!. Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). Things which are unclear, those must remain that way until the Holy Spirit reveal them to each and everyone of us according to the level of grace , and most importantly, for a particular purpose, We born again believers do not read to know like them, but we read to live. He studied under the best Jewish teachers including the well-respected teacher, Gamaliel . Jesus said its TWO commandments, with the greatest, most important, first command to .1) first, love God with everything youve got, and .2) second, love people. Why believe a self-described co-redeemer holy spirit comforter who claimed; I became your father, therefore I urge you to imitate me? Who did Apostle Paul study under? Long has taught full time at Grace Christian University since 1998, specializing in Bible and Biblical languages. . We should follow the Jesus of the Gospel writers. But we dont need to put words in the mouth of Jesus, we can let Jesus speak for himself, and we can listen to Him and obey Him. For example, are we missing any casuistry from Gamaliel which might demonstrate Gamaliels dissent from Hillel in specific cases presenting unique facts? Any help is much appreciated, in advance! Shaul and Yehusa were both Jews who practiced Judaism, worshiped in synagogues, at the temple and were part of Jewish society and culture. (Paul insisted that all the workers show respect for him by addressing him as Boss Paul.) Paul called the team of painters together and told them: Boys, we need to paint this garage and house. Perhaps a foundation stone? This comes from inconsciously believing Pauls mantra, the Evangelical Mantra, that All Scripure is God-breathed, and falsely assuming Paul was referring to every word in the 66 Books of the Bible. Dear Philip, Below are quotes and links from two other blog gentlemen (Christopher, and UnashamedofJesus) who disagree with each other. Taken directly from Talmud. Mantra (noun) (Hinduism.) They didnt celebrate easter, christmas, saunday. Thanks also for your series on New Perspectives. That is a good question, I am not sure if anyone has ever asked me that before! I was attracted to the school because they put Pauls mantra of All Scripture is God-breathed above everything else, and I wanted to heed Pauls command and Preach the Word like Paul. This does not seem so radically opposed to Rome. Gamaliel was himself a Pharisee in the tradition of the great Hillel. Nowhere. The NIV translation inserts the heading Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas for the passage Luke wrote in Acts 1:12-26]. According to tradition, Gamaliel and Nicodemus buried Saint Stephen outside of Jerusalem. You are Simon son of John said Jesus, without elaboration. When we look at Pauls teachings and testimony about himself, (in his letters that make up 1/3 of the New Testament,) we should NOT immediately ask ourselves; what did Paul say, what did Paul mean, and how does this apply to my life? The fundamental question is NOT what was in the mind of Paul?, Before any of that, the FIRST question to ask is; does Paul agree with Jesus, who came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets?, Paul contradicted himself, and his teachings and testimony about himself dont harmonize with the teachings of Jesus (or with Lukes record of his life.) Provocative. It is the drastic nature of the difference in his life after he surrenders to Jesus that testifies to the Power and Truth of who Christ is, as well as to the wonder of the great mystery that is later revealed to Paul! I regularly answer your lengthy and off topic responses. brought up . Sticking with Acts, Gamaliel counsels caution in Acts 5, Rabbi Saul seems to abandon caution by Acts 7. Perhaps Gamiliels views influenced Pauls personal comments on marriage in 1 Corinthians 7 (Polhill, Paul and his Letters, 30). The will of God is plainly revealed, showing all that man is to do, to be, to suffer, and enjoy. What was his first name? Same question; Specifically, what were Pauls specific sins as a Christian based on specific verses of the Bible? Lets see. This article is the result of when you remove the culture/context of the scriptures, the Hebraics of the Brist Chadasha (Renewed Testament) and injecting the christian outlook that Shaul (Paul) divorced his Jewish roots. Were in a recession, the economy is terrible, jobs are scarce, immorality is rampant, and in many ways the country is falling apart. I agree that the teaching of Gamaliel did influence his life and was the foundation of his ministry because he is a Talmudim from that school. St. Gamaliel, also Gamaliel the Elder or or Rabbi Gamaliel I (Hebrew: ; Greek: ) was a Pharisee who was a leading authority in the Sanhedrin, a doctor of the Law (Acts 5:34-40), and the teacher of St Paul (Acts 22:3). If the mere thought of questioning Pauline Doctrine or Pauls truthfulness ruffles your feathers, its a sign that Pauls rotten spiritual fruit has taken root in your life. I dont want to bite the hand that feeds me (and my family). Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. I dont see specifically that Paul trained leaders of house churches to carry on the work after he left- but maybe Im missing something. Paul says that he was taught by Gamaliel. Hillel, like Moses, died at the age of 120 and for the last 40 years of his life (c.30 BC-10 AD) he led the Sanhedrin, the ruling elders who determined on political and religious cases in Jerusalem. And Christians do it with pride as there is no Trinity and the Bible doesnt say there is OR that God is more than 1. When Im at the beach with the hip crowd, I wont take a stand in public. This is a question our experts keep getting from time to time. 3). When P. Long said above that he was an ultra conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view, it made me think of this situation more in terms of the present times. Anyway, I should save a throne for him too.. That is the order of address in near eastern culture and especially the Sanhedrin, being the Nazarite or the one ran by corrupted Pharisee and Sadducee. There will always necessarily be a need for supposition and inference. Have you even stepped inside shul? Or does he break away from Gamaliel and the Pharisees in other ways? It ignores the previous verse, 2 Timothy 3:15, which clearly indicates that Paul was NOT referring to his own letters when he wrote the words All Scripture.. I could just say Jesus is our model. But never discuss the Scriptures that show why Paul is NOT our model. Granted Shammaite pharisees love their Torah to that extent as well, but it is not a distinctly Shammaite practice.
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