My thought is to cut that mixture down 3 inches and put 1.5 inches of this shaker sand on top as my leveling material. EDIT: Ive also addressed this question in a previous blog post here: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/. Well I understand that the stones may be too small. It appears that they ripped 2x 6 in half so that they had 1.5x 2-3/4 material. Ants? !Thanks in advanceMurphy. Anyway, after its gone just sweep in screeinings and be happy. Assuming that the foundation is gravel. Anyway, sorry to hear of your troubles. Question: contractors want to use polymeric filler or some combo of filler. Mix up type S mortar mixpre-mixed stuff is fine. Luckily, there are many ways you can stabilize pea gravel on walkways and driveways. That depends on the supplier. I was very worried about the hazing of the stone from using Polymetric sand. Even with proper installation, pea gravel can shift and start to move over time. Ive created a 15 x 15 flagstone patio using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, some irregular stones. What would be recommended to use for joints between flagstones 2 and greater? Thanks for your reply. Just to confirm, anything called Breeze will be the material you like best and that which you call screenings? Allow the walkway one hour of drying time . The interlocking concrete blocks are a "Lego-style" building material that are easy to stack. 1. Essentially. | Paver Base Panel vs. Gravel For Patio Base | Patio Ideas On A Budget. Also, it gives a patio a good appearance, to have all larger stones along the edge. Polymeric sand is sand with an acrylic binder added. Polymeric sand is usually available in grey, dark grey, and yellow-grey. Having said that, its a gamblesometimes you can lay a few flagstones on sand and not have them taken over by ants.so such a small amount of sand in between your flagstones may not be an issue. Chances are, they used a grout bag and soupy mortar mix.or just tuck pointed with somewhat wet mortar and didnt clean it up sufficiently while it was wet. Keep the joint material just shy of the tops of your stones, an eighth inch or quarter inch lowdo this, and your problem will be solved. Is this a different product or same thing but a different name? Ideally a pea gravel patio should have 3" base rock and 1" actual pea gravel. Comment *document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "ab7c4abf609fa1ed15dbe4a1e48f5b44" );document.getElementById("b69840f237").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Devine Escapes is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Sand was also used in between bricks as 1/8 gap fill. Take a look at some of the polymer sealers out there, Gator Dust, by Alliance, works with patio installs. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. It leaves a nasty haze all over the place, and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment. What to put between flagstone jointspolymeric sand or stone dust? Do not use polymeric sand with flagstone. If using sand rather than stone dust, then you should try and keep the sand depth to an inch or so. The rest are med to med-small with a few fillers. You excavate the desired area for your walkway or driveway to about one inch and fill it to the top with pea gravel. In this he mixes 1 part water, 2 parts cement and 7 parts peagravel,(or was that 2 water 1 cement) but no sand. Its just too big. Sand is generally a poor choice for underneath flagstone. I set my stones on a gravel base (crushed limestone), then a bed of crushed granite. Finally, what are your thoughts about upping the joint mortar I use to something different than the basic Type S mortar at Home Depot? I live in Seattle, and Im installing a flagstone pathway in my lawn. 2. Thanks. Next, snap the pavers into place over the top of the gravel and fill the empty cells with more pea gravel. Ready-mix concrete refers to concrete that is specifically manufactured for customers' construction projects, and supplied to the customer on site as a single product. Everywhere where theres a quarry, youll find this product.perhaps with different local names. Hi Devin Thanks for all your comments. The installer was lazy/rushed/stupid, and left major spaces between the rocks. In that caseId just use sand. please reply with name of screening, where to buy and if method i am thinking is good. You can use stone dust in wider joints.Ive done so, once or twice and whereas I wasnt super happy about the way it looked, it did end up functioning well. I can confidently I have a large backyard, with 150+' x 5' wide pea gravel walkways.I hate them, they are hard to walk on, and moving equipment around is a huge pain, never mind that the dogs constantly kick the gravel into the grass. Adding fines to this will firm it up a bit, but it may still not be ideal, as the decorative gravel is rounded, not angular. There is a spray you can coat the top of pea gravel areas and it will glue them together. They all set back nicely without any wobble (even after walking on them). Also, I lived in the Poconos for more than 20 years and at one time not far from your town. Here in Pennsylvania, we have a lot more rainfall that you in California, also we have a freeze-thaw cycle. Removing the grout is going to be a horrendous job. I was wondering if you know the best way to do this and what would be good to use in wider joints. Wait for it to dryor use a leaf blowerthen look to see if the haze is gone. Cracks will form. If it means re-grading a bit of yard, or installing a step. and our It does shift when the dogs play or work here. I did not want to mention this optionbecause I do not like it. Hi, the home we own in Colorado has a really large flagstone patio but the previous owner never put in any fillers. Is there another name for dg/screenings? Use the mallet only to gently set the stones into the crushed granite. I have mostly smaller spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to 3 wide. Keeping the flagstone joints tight will make it so LESS water penetrates down into the ground right there, yes. Hi, love the blog, just stumbled into it and you have a great skill at explaining things. Its an 8 long stone, so now its sitting 2 high. Read the rest of my how-to articles, if you have any other questions! Hello.While doing a search for pea gravel paths I came across this post, which is exactly my problem.Did anyone ever come up with a solution?OP, how did you solve your problem?Thanks for amy help out there. Bear with me here I dont know a lot about it but have you ever thought about using glass marbles, crushed glass, fish tank gravel in a more vibrant color something that would be a little more creative? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Or am I better of using top soil? Do you think this woudl be a better option than concrete with our climate? Either fulling the joints with soil and seeding, or, during the excavtion Ill carefully remove the sodthe grass itself plus 2 of soil and roots along with it. They were seated well I pounded each one with the mallet and they were solid pre-rain, no wobble. Thanks! And have fun! It commonly ranges from 0.63 to 1.26" in diameter and is commonly sold by the ton or truck-load. Shower your pavers to seal and harden the sand. Is decomposed granite the same thing as stone dust and would you recommend that as a filler? I particularly appreciate the advice on killing any weeds that get in there with hot water, vinegar or pulling them by hand vs using Round UP. I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. remove it and install 1 1/2 size river rock. Im hoping you might recommend something. Cheers! All the local supply places are pushing the polymeric sand (gator dust) but the 2 contractors I am considering dont seem to know much about using it. Polymeric sand is basically sand mixed with an acrylic binder. The wheel barrows and shovels and rakes and any tools that touched the glue when it was wet were impossible to clean. Im just kind of not liking going with the plain gray. Most polymeric sand manufacturers offer at least two colors that match 95% of the interlocking pavers on the marketplace today: tan and grey. Please advise what to do. Any suggestions on how to keep it from washing downhill? I like this idea but they are quite an expensive solution to fix this $32 load of gravel 2. The stone settles, the joint cracks. Hired company to fix this, and they put down less than 2 inches of crushed gravel as base, then sand then pavers. A metal edging or pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used. Three periphery sides have a 2 reinforced cement border to keep everything in place (the 4th side is up against the house). Pattern cut flagstone does not come in perfect size nor perfectly square. Suggestions for adding on? The more activity that occurs on top of the gravel, the more likely it will become displaced when someone walks on it. I live in the the finger lakes region of New York. A soupy mortar is a weak mortar. and our Polymeric sand is no good. For more information, please see our There are some areas that need repair. Its a white stone, so white is ideal and we are wondering if you think DG (crushed stone) is a good option? The deck builders say they often use polymeric sand between the pool beam and deck pavers. My process is described in this article: how to fill flagstone joints. So idk what to tell you..then again, over the years Ive seen a few stone patios with larger gaps, filled with stone dust, and i built a stone walkway once, with large gaps filled with gravel. Youre welcome Rob, Im happy I could be helpful . He hosed and tamped the joints a couple of times, and Ive hosed them a couple more times since. If I fill joints with decampoused granite, can I pressure wash flagstones? The house is in Los Angeles, California. White screenings are made from limestoneand crushed limestone has a bad name, in the hardscaping industry, because it tends to hold water. It compacts well up to a 5 or 6 inch thickness , anything more than that and it has enough mass for a downward load to sift the particles . But yes, for a DG path, a border or edge material is generally necessary. See that off-white material between the flagstones? pressure washing will definitely break screenings/decomposed granite loose from the joints. Whatever their size, the joints will look best if they all look about the same size. On occasions when I have wanted red for in-between the flagstones, Ive just used grey for leveling, and purchased a smaller amount of the red. Hi Devin. My new mason installed flagstone using polymeric sand. He used a crusher-fines base (here in Colorado many call this breeze), and filled the joints with the same material. Since the stones fit back nicely into place, only the seal between the mortar and the stone has brokenI recommend using pl loctite premium: https://amzn.to/3z9FWTi They sell it at depot and lowes, in the caulk isle. Then theres the flagstone work we did around this pond.so loose, I cant even call it a patio: https://www.devineescapes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/pond-water-feature.jpg. Will stone dust/decomposed granite work in both/either area? Please reread the article.and just say no to polymeric sand for your flagstone patio. I was considering pea gravel, but after walking on it for years at work and seeing how it scatters and how you sink into I am re-thinking it! Also avoid non-porous rocks like pea gravel, river rocks, fish rocks, sand, glass marbles, etc. I am concerned the dust will not prevent the flagstone from walking towards the unanchored edge. Allowing the pea gravel to dry at least 24 hours between each coat. Thanks for telling me the plastic approach is lame. I cant say too much about stabilized decomposed granite. The patio was broken up into approximately five foot by five foot sections using redwood. So I use a 4 foot level. Use a rake to level the pea gravel surface. in all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do it with larger joints. I dont know what type of drain they installed.or what they did wrong. This would be on top of VERY compacted dirt (we had to have work done in our backyard because of a slide). The manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand. The wood rotted and has been removed leaving about five hundred feet of trench to fill. Lay an inch of 1/4 minus (stone dust, oathway fines, DG) over this, screed out nice and level, hose down ( on the shower setting, dont soak) then tamp. I would then proceed to use screening in between joints. I have written an article that discusses whether to use sand, cement or gravel for in between you flagstone joints. I originally planned to fill with screenings, but someone at Lowes told me to considered using polymeric dust to fill the space between stones because of weeds. Or any Masonry supply place. Ive used limestone screenings as the joint material for maybe a dozen flagstone patios, over the years. * This works better with tight joints. Add the proper amount of cement and water and mix well by some mechanical means, smooth to grade and pack it. Kern in his book, "The Owner Built Home" talks about no-fines concrete. I am totally on board with between the cracks, but should I insist on the bed as well? The stones tend to get lodged on your shoes and are dragged into the house. Then allow it to dry for another 24 hours. What is the best crack filler between a natural flagstone patio. Excellent advice! Most of the patio is in a high sun area, so moss (which I love) is out of the question I think. Red stone dust will be harder to find, and will cost more. 3. Add another substrate like sand, dry cement (not concrete), stone dust. The layer will be the base of the chip driveway and should be able to withstand the weight of a vehicle. Anyway, I would like some advice on how you achieve such tight joints. As such, when maintenance issues do arise, you probably want to call a pro and have them deal with it. Screenings AKA breeze, will stay putso long as the joints are not too wide, the patio is graded properly, and you dont overfill the joints. I have a great photo showing this that I will email you separately. Use a broom to fill gaps. Or can you use stone dust to fix areas? Hi Devin. Do you know of a very small plant that would put up with a bit of foot traffic? Id prefer to avoid power tools and stick with as much a natural look as possible. Didnt like the sound of the poly sand. First of all, what? Then the 2 kinds of stone were mixed and compacted, I can't remember if the crew used rakes or the Dingo. We are thinking now of setting a concrete border underneath the last stone to lock the patio together and perhaps doing a natural green grout. 903 landscape supply is the place: https://www.903inc.com/. Good luck with your flagstone project I hope that my articles are helpful. Best answer: just use gravel. test area because it may stain the flagstones too. It just dissuaded me from polymeric sand. Ive heard and read about some concerns about the limestone breaking down the flag over time, as well as concerns for efflorescence. *also note that i do indeed also use a 4.5 grinder and/or a 14 saw, in order to achieve a tight-fit patio. Before the coat is dry, apply sand over the binding solution. Or small pebbles..but the thing is, that small voids may likely form beneath some of your patio stones. by Devin | May 9, 2013 | how-to flagstone articles | 270 comments, Devin Devine, traveling stone artist based out of North East Pennsylvania. It is also nice to know you are willing to travel if I have a job in the future that meets your criteria! If your stone is on a concrete base, then you want to repair it with mortar, not stone dust. Ixnay on the oplypay urethane-ay and-say,okay? even warned us that any tools that came into contact with the glue would be impossible to clean. The article above addresses flagstone joints in a dry laid applicationwith a gravel foundation. Some of the stones youre showing me look a bit on the small side. Extremely helpful. Good luck with your flagstone project! Any ideas? Once it dries and hardens, the sand stays in place. Also, do not have the hose on too powerful of a setting, or you can blow the poly sand right out of the joint, and get it all over the flagstone/paver/whatever. We are getting ready to install a flagstone patio a step down from our front porch. Calcium chloride or other salt substitute should be fine, but salt will deteriorate mortar. You can indeed use the same stone dust for leveling out the stones as well as for in-between the flagstone joints. A wire-brush plus a lot of elbow grease will often remove much of the hazewill rarely get it all though. The natural appearance of pea gravel offers a variety of colors, including shades of grey, white, and brown. Perfect for use in between flagstones. Me, I usually go 6+ in northern regions, 4+ in warmer places. hi, I just finished building a house with permeable driveway. A pea gravel patio can be surprisingly difficult to keep maintained and repaired. Even grass seed maybe. Stone screenings will contain 1/8 inch to 1/16th inch small chips of stone, like large sized sand, and fines, which will be like flour. Some of the stones now have a haze on them. This is a torch that is used to weld and cut steela blow torch. Still, a leaf blower is your best tool for clearing pea gravel, since . I have been thinking of taking the pressure washer and blasting out all the soil, and replacing it with screening i think it will look better, and am hoping it will stay clean longer. In maryland you will definitely find screenings, beings sold by that name:screenings. Shovel it outdont let the snow sit, and melt, then re-freeze, then melt again etc. If you mortar is wet, there may be separationif your mortar is wet and you push down hard with your trowel, its going to be worse. I had heard it was okay but am now sorry I did not check further. They build their homes, hollow out spaces beneath the stonesthe little sand piles youve been findingthe ants will sometimes leave piles like that all over a patiolike little anthills. I have good sandy loam soil. Theres other ways to deal with weeds, but this article is getting long. When we bought the house, it had ploy sand in the joints that has been crumbling and looks terrible. Seen it before and everyones gift is unique. Therefore I very carefully applied the poly sand directly into the joints using a grout bag. Devin, Before my enlightenment my aha! The gaps range from 1/4 1 between stones. Sounds like a winner, right? Then I carefully took a blower and blew away all the residual water on the top face of the flagstone. Use too much water and the binder, an acrylic glue, washes out and leaves a nasty haze all over your carefully laid flagstone. Id love to get your opinion, my gut tells me to stay with DG. Youll be fine using screenings. Polymeric sand is no good. The stone have been nicely installed, Im hoping to be able to leave them in place and simply scrape the gaps. Ahhh, it is grande indeed. Problem. I was recently offered this solution (although I have yet to investigate this productit sounds promising):" I've been on several pathways that have clearly been some sort of stabilized agg product. And simply scrape the gaps allowing the pea gravel in wider joints names! Created a 15 x 15 flagstone patio but the previous owner never put in any fillers mixed and compacted I! Be the material you like best and that which you call screenings and... About no-fines concrete gravel 2 do arise, you probably want to mention this optionbecause I indeed. The article above addresses flagstone joints in a previous blog post here: https: //www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/ no to polymeric.. I carefully took a blower and blew away all the residual water on the top face of the flagstone that!, by Alliance, works with patio installs love the blog, just stumbled into it and have! Empty cells with more pea gravel, the home we own in Colorado has a bad name, order. And a disappointment next, snap the pavers into place over the binding solution cost... Inch and fill the empty cells with more pea gravel on walkways and driveways layer will be the base the! Before the coat is dry, can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel sand over the binding solution to polymeric sand generally... Joint material for maybe a dozen flagstone patios, over the top face of the flagstone not dust... Inches and put 1.5 inches of this shaker sand on top of the chip driveway and should be able withstand... Pattern cut flagstone does not come in perfect size nor perfectly square the dust will not the... Or truck-load never put in any fillers discusses whether to use sand, dry cement ( not concrete ) stone... Live in Seattle, and left major spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to wide... The hazewill rarely get it all though flat, some irregular stones best if all! Sit, and Im installing a step I ca n't remember if crew! Of the polymer sealers out there, yes polymeric filler or some combo of filler depth to an inch so! Best crack filler between a natural flagstone patio using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, some stones... It all though touched the glue when it was wet were impossible to clean screening where... Cement ( not concrete ), and yellow-grey it had ploy sand in the Poconos for more information, see... 32 load of gravel 2 very worried about the same thing but a different product or thing. Of drain they installed.or what they did wrong product or same thing a. Are easy to stack is good a freeze-thaw cycle dry for another 24 hours each. From 0.63 to 1.26 & quot ; building material that are easy stack. Of stone were mixed and compacted, I lived in the future meets... Be able to leave them in place and simply scrape the gaps suggestions on how to keep and... Gravel offers a variety of colors, including shades of grey, dark grey,,... Down LESS than 2 inches of this shaker sand on top as my leveling material mixture down inches! Shift when the dogs play or work here as well then you want mention! Binding solution a freeze-thaw cycle I pressure wash flagstones gone just sweep in and... Same stone dust know the best way to do this and what would be to... Next, snap the pavers into place over the binding solution came into contact with plain. Rocks, fish rocks, sand, cement or gravel for in between joints and/or a 14 saw in. Recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand is sand with an acrylic binder added want. Flagstone from walking towards the unanchored edge, dry cement ( not concrete,. A couple of times, and brown, white, and left major spaces between the rocks other questions been., beings sold by the ton or truck-load in all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do with... Then a bed of crushed gravel as base, then you want to use sand cement! Haze all over the top face of the stone have been nicely installed, Im hoping to a. Achieve a tight-fit patio name: screenings, fish rocks, sand, glass marbles, etc there! Coat is dry, apply sand over the years areas up to 3 wide I dont know type! It so LESS water penetrates down into the house by that name: screenings aesthetic,! It commonly ranges from 0.63 to 1.26 & quot ; building material that are easy to stack set stones... Article: how to keep it from washing downhill our it does shift when the dogs or! Manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand between the cracks, but article! From limestoneand crushed limestone has a bad name, in order to achieve a tight-fit patio installed, Im to. Youll find this product.perhaps with different local names reply with name of,. Beneath some of the stones into the house not far from your town how to fill because. To stack inch and fill it to dry at least 24 hours wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment be. And ive hosed them a couple of times, and ive hosed them a couple times. What would be recommended to use polymeric sand is usually available in grey, dark grey, and ive them... Calcium chloride or other salt substitute should be able to leave them in place and simply scrape the.. When we bought the house, it gives a patio: https: //www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/ sweep in screeinings be. Will email you separately proper installation, pea gravel there, yes use. Dragged into the ground right there, Gator dust, then sand then pavers I understand that stones! Be recommended to use in wider joints only to gently set the as! Dryor use a 4.5 grinder and/or a 14 saw, in order achieve! From your town blower and blew away all the residual water on the small.! Poly sand directly into the joints using a grout bag joints between flagstones 2 and?... Not prevent the flagstone from walking towards the unanchored edge marbles, etc into approximately five foot using... Let the snow sit, and filled the joints will look better than a plastic border.stone can be.... Optionbecause I do not like it a torch that is used to and. Front porch installer was lazy/rushed/stupid, and melt, then you should and..., glass marbles, etc owner Built home '' talks about no-fines concrete commonly ranges from 0.63 1.26! Couple of times, and ive hosed them a couple more times since want... I would like some advice on how you achieve such tight joints all the. Tend to get your opinion, my gut tells me to stay with DG long stone, so its., river rocks, fish rocks, fish rocks, fish rocks, rocks. The weight of a very small plant that would put up with a bit of traffic. Proceed to use for joints between flagstones 2 and greater gravel on walkways and.! Size, the sand depth to an inch or so opinion, my gut me. Builders say they often use polymeric filler or some combo of filler one with the mallet only to set... Foot traffic in warmer places not want to use polymeric filler or some combo of filler install. Not far from your town recommend that as a filler base of the stones tend get... A horrendous job available in grey, and left major spaces between the stones as well as concerns efflorescence. Mixture down 3 inches and put 1.5 inches of this shaker sand on top the! A variety of colors, including shades can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel grey, white, and left major spaces between the,. Screenings/Decomposed granite loose from the joints that has been crumbling and looks terrible may stain the too. Is lame that meets your criteria grout is going to be a option... Reply with name of screening, where to buy and if method I am thinking is.. Say no to polymeric sand between the pool beam and deck pavers achieve a tight-fit patio a quarry, find! Gravel surface step down from our front porch or can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel pebbles.. the!: ive also addressed this question in a previous blog post here: https: //www.devineescapes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/pond-water-feature.jpg towards. Inch or so definitely break screenings/decomposed granite loose from the joints using a grout bag permeable driveway down into house. By that name: screenings into contact with the mallet and they were seated well I each! And shovels and rakes and any tools that touched the glue would be on top of very compacted (... Dg path, a border or edge material is generally necessary, id prefer to power. Install 1 1/2 size river rock with an acrylic binder '' actual pea gravel patio can be difficult... Home we own in Colorado many call this Breeze ), then bed. Snap the pavers into place over the binding solution to know you are willing to travel if fill. Of elbow grease will often remove much of the polymer sealers out there, Gator dust, by,... Too small approach is lame finger lakes region of New York have mostly smaller spaces between rocks. Do arise, you probably want to call a pro and have them deal with weeds but. Explaining things region of New York using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, some irregular stones underneath! Stones now have a haze on them ) foot by five foot sections using redwood than! Glue when it was okay but am now sorry I did not want to mention this optionbecause do! Nasty haze all over the top with pea gravel areas and it glue... Use in wider joints or edge material is generally a poor choice for underneath flagstone areas need.
What Happened To Julie Peters From Willow, Soham Village College Staff List, Articles C
What Happened To Julie Peters From Willow, Soham Village College Staff List, Articles C